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Postado

Eu pago 19$ e pouco com 90 softgels em loja, vc só compra pelo e-bay mesmo? Essa daí já tomei tb, mas não acho tão barato pela quantidade que vem. Aquela da Now que mostrei vem com 100 mcg e custa uns $12,00, se tiver pensando em economizar é mais vantegem comprar ela e tomar a cada dois dias ja que a meia vida dele de cerca de três dias. A Super K tem no e-bay sim só não conheço o vendedor, no caso dela poderia tomar duas vezes por semana e duraria quase um ano. A K2 não é tão baratinha quanto a vit D mesmo, mas não sai tão caro assim tb, dá até pra tomar tds os dias de boa ou fazer esse esse esquema.

Importado só pelo ebay mesmo, nunca tive um suplemento extraviado, até outras coisas como jogos e perfumes sempre chegam de boa, por isso só compro nele.

A da Now Fodds que vc se refere é essa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOW-Foods-Vitamin-K-2-100-mcg-100-Vcaps-/230410206085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a584bb85#ht_1399wt_1139

?

Mas essa dai é a mk-4 não?

ah, achei a Super K

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Vitamin-K1-phylloquinone-K2-90-Softgels-Save-5-/150401110789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23049ad305#ht_3227wt_1139

Pow, mas muito caro, e ela vem com K1 junto.

e me auto-respondendo...rs acabei de encontrar a da K-7 da Now Foods

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MK-7-Vitamin-K-2-100-mcg-60-Vcaps-NOW-Foods-/190683557450?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c65a02e4a#ht_1775wt_1628

mas olha o valor do frete.. :(

O melhor CxB que achei foram essas, mas o problema que vem com varias substâncias juntas

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puritans-Pride-Joint-Complex-Glucosamine-Hyaluronic-Acid-Vitamin-D-K2-60-Caps-/370635062545?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564b923d11#ht_1555wt_1001

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Source-Naturals-Vitamin-K2-60-Tablets-/280750481711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415e08612f#ht_2350wt_906

Você já usou essa da Source Naturals?

Massa, não conhecia, vou dar uma pesquisada mais afundo nessa substância..

Publicidade

Postado (editado)

O melhor CxB que achei foram essas, mas o problema que vem com varias substâncias juntas

http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1555wt_1001

http://www.ebay.com/...f#ht_2350wt_906

Nunca tomei nehuma dessas! A primeira o fabricante não declara qual tipo de k2 que é então 99,99% de chance de ser mk4 e nessa dosagem ele é meio que inútil.. A segunda tem dose baixa poucas caps só se tive interessado nas outras substãncias, achei bem cara na verdade.

obs: corrigindo a dose da segunda não é baixa é é Ok mas meio carinha

Editado por cyberots
Postado

Nunca tomei nehuma dessas! A primeira o fabricante não declara qual tipo de k2 que é então 99,99% de chance de ser mk4 e nessa dosagem ele é meio que inútil.. A segunda tem dose baixa poucas caps só se tive interessado nas outras substãncias, achei bem cara na verdade.

obs: corrigindo a dose da segunda não é baixa é é Ok mas meio carinha

Sim, a dose do segundo é 100mcg, a dose que você citou como recomendada. E ela vem com 60 caps, da pra 2 meses. Quanto que você esta pagando na Super K?

Postado

Dando continuidade a discussão sobre o GH, outra substância que estimula a sua liberação

Acute supplementation with alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine augments growth hormone response to, and peak force production during, resistance exercise

Tim Ziegenfuss*, Jamie Landis and Jennifer Hofheins

The Center for Applied Health Science Research, Division of Sports Nutrition and Exercise Science, Fairlawn, OH 44333, USA

For all author emails, please log on.

Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2008, 5(Suppl 1):P15 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-5-S1-P15

The electronic version of this article is the complete one and can be found online at:http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15

Published: 17 September 2008

© 2008 Ziegenfuss et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.

Background

Many of the positive adaptations resulting from resistance exercise training (i.e., increased muscle mass and strength, decreased fat mass) are thought to be mediated, in part, by exercise-induced increases in growth hormone (GH). One ingredient that has shown clinical promise in elevating GH is the acetylcholine precursor alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine (A-GPC). The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of a supplement containing primarily A-GPC on serum GH levels, explosive performance, and post-exercise substrate oxidation.

Methods

Using a randomized, placebo-controlled, crossover design, seven men (mean ± SD age, height, weight, body fat: 30.1 ± 7.3 y, 179.2 ± 7.4 cm, 87.3 ± 11.6 kg, 18.1 ± 5.9%) with at least two years of resistance training experience ingested 600 mg A-GPC (as AlphaSize™) or a placebo 90-minutes prior to completing 6 sets × 10 repetitions of Smith Machine squats at 70% of their pre-determined 1-repetition maximum. At 30-minutes post-exercise, resting metabolic rate (RMR) and respiratory exchange ratio (RER) were measured with indirect calorimetry to assess post-exercise caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fat oxidation, respectively. Immediately following RMR and RER measurements, subjects performed three sets of bench press throws at 50% of their pre-determined 1-repetition maximum to assess peak force, peak power, and rate of force development. All trials were performed after an overnight fast, a 48-hour abstention from intense exercise, and during the same time of day to minimize diurnal variation. Serum samples were obtained prior to exercise and again 0, 5, 15, 30, 60, 90 and 120 minutes post-exercise. Hormone concentrations were analyzed in duplicate by Quest Diagnostics® via immunoassay. Statistical evaluation of the data was accomplished using dependent t-tests (peak force, peak power, rate of force development) and repeated measures ANOVA (GH, RMR, RER). Differences were considered "significant" at P ≤ 0.05.

Results

Compared to baseline (pre) values, peak GH increased 44-fold during A-GPC (from 0.19 ± 0.06 to 8.4 ± 2.1 ng/mL) vs. 2.6-fold during placebo (from 1.9 ± 0.8 to 5.0 ± 4.8 ng/mL, P < 0.03) (Figure1). Peak bench press force was 14% greater in A-GPC (933 ± 89 N) vs. placebo (818 ± 77 N, P < 0.02). Trends toward higher peak bench press power (P < 0.13) and lower post-exercise RER (P < 0.12) were noted in the A-GPC trial.

1550-2783-5-S1-P15-1-l.jpg

1550-2783-5-S1-P15-1.gifFigure 1.

Conclusion

These data indicate that a single 600 mg dose of A-GPC (as AlphaSize™), when administered 90 minutes prior to resistance exercise, increases post-exercise serum GH and peak bench press force. In contrast, A-GPC had no statistically significant effect on peak power, rate of force development, RMR, or cardiovascular hemodynamics (i.e., heart rate and blood pressure). Future work should examine how resistance exercise + A-GPC affect the GH-IGF axis and their associated family of binding proteins.

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Alpha GPC e o Cérebro

Background

L-Alpha glycerylphosphorylcholine (αGPC, choline alfoscerate) is a precursor in the biosynthesis of neuronal cell phospholipids and has been shown to increase the availability of acetylcholine (Ach) in nerve tissue. The proper functioning of acetylcholine neurotransmission is integral to healthy cognition. Disruptions in acetylcholine neurotransmission associated with many memory-related or age-associated disorders and result in impairments in learning, memory, and cognitive processing. αGPC, which is an extract from purified soy lecithin, can elevate Ach levels to alleviate symptoms of these disorders and enhance cognitive skills. αGPC enhances Ach neurotransmission by facilitating cell membrane fluidity and increasing availability of neurotransmitter precursors.

Significant Findings

1.png

αGPC is a versatile compound in cholinergic neurons

Choline plays an important role in neurotransmitter and lipid metabolite synthesis. Adequate choline levels can be maintained with regular diet and nerve cells uptake choline through the circulation. Available choline in the nerve cell can be employed to produce essential lipid components or to synthesis acetylcholine directly. Choline derived lipid components, such as phosphatidylcholine, provide membrane fluidity and structural reorganization of neurons. Decreased density of phospholipids can contribute to membrane rigidity, an indication of aging or unhealthy cells [1]. αGPC is a derivative of phosphatidylcholine and has been shown to positively influence membrane fluidity [2] and potentially reverse the effects of age-related damage in cholinergic neurons [3]. Furthermore, Alpha-GPC resides in the cell membrane and can also be catabolized to produce choline and increase acetylcholine neurotransmitter synthesis [2](Fig 1). The biological versatility of this compound to act as both a precursor molecule and a structural component of the cell membrane supports a beneficial role to cholinergic neurotransmission.

αGPC increases Ach release in important brain regions

2.png

The well-established role of the cholinergic system in cognitive processing has led researchers to evaluate the usefulness of αGPC. In a study using animal models, αGPC administration elevated Ach in cerebral cortex, hippocampus, and striatum in a dose dependent manner [4](Fig 2). Once this elevation in Ach was confirmed, the same study examined the behavioral outcomes of αGPC supplementation. αGPC was co-administered with scopamine, a drug known to interfere with memory performance. Co-administration of αGPC attenuated the memory impairing effects of the drug, supporting claims of improved memory performance.

Meta-analysis of αGPC human trials shows an effective therapy for memory loss

A review of thirteen published clinical trials, examining over 4000 patients, has evaluated the role of αGPC as a therapy for memory and age-related disorders. After treatment periods ranging from three to six months, all trials reported significant improvements in clinical condition, especially during performance in attention and memory tasks [5]. In addition, each study reported significant improvements in related symptoms such as disorientation, irritability, lack of emotional control, and indifference to surroundings. In one particular study, Schettini el al. administered a-GPC to 20 patients with Alzheimer’s disease and compared them to a placebo control group. At the end of three-month treatment period, the αGPC treated cohort had demonstrated improved memory function by 15.6%, while the placebo-controlled group declined in memory performance by 8%, consistent with the degenerative nature of the memory-disorders [5].

Nootropic properties of αGPC

Memory formation is dependent upon the coordination of various neurological processes, which can be separately influenced [6]. αGPC supplementation has been shown to increase the release of Ach in the hippocampus, a brain region necessary for the formation of new memories with a high density of cholinergic neurons [1]. The effects of cholinergic enhancement in healthy subjects results in improved performance on working memory tasks. These improvements in memory function correlated with heightened activity in brain regions associated with memory encoding (Fig 3). Additional experiments led the researchers to conclude that cholinergic enhancement improves working memory by focusing perceptual processing on relevant stimuli [7]. Enhancing cholinergic transmission with αGPC might not only benefit those with memory disorders, but may also potentiate working memory in healthy adults.

3.png

Summary

Efficient neurotransmission in cholinergic neurons is crucial for normal memory performance. Degrading cholinergic neurons or depressed Ach neurotransmitter levels results in specific memory impairments and cognitive disturbances. αGPC has been shown to alleviate the symptoms in populations suffering from severe memory loss. In vivo studies show enhanced Ach neurotransmitter release in specific brain regions. The mechanism for this elevated release is the versatility of αGPC to participate in Ach synthesis or provide neuronal membrane fluidity. Enhancing cholinergic neurotransmission in healthy subjects yields improvements in working memory tasks. These studies support the use of αGPC as a nootropic aimed at increasing Ach neurotransmission and improving memory function.

Reference

  • Amenta F, Tayebati SK: Pathways of acetylcholine synthesis, transport and release as targets for treatment of adult-onset cognitive dysfunction. Curr Med Chem 2008, 15:488-498.
  • Aleppo G, Nicoletti F, Sortino MA, Casabona G, Scapagnini U, Canonico PL: Chronic L-alpha-glyceryl-phosphoryl-choline increases inositol phosphate formation in brain slices and neuronal cultures. Pharmacol Toxicol 1994, 74:95-100.
  • Muccioli G, Raso GM, Ghe C, Di Carlo R: Effect of L-alpha glycerylphosphorylcholine on muscarinic receptors and membrane microviscosity of aged rat brain. Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry 1996, 20:323-339.
  • Sigala S, Imperato A, Rizzonelli P, Casolini P, Missale C, Spano P: L-alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine antagonizes scopolamine-induced amnesia and enhances hippocampal cholinergic transmission in the rat. Eur J Pharmacol 1992,211:351-358.
  • Parnetti L, Amenta F, Gallai V: Choline alphoscerate in cognitive decline and in acute cerebrovascular disease: an analysis of published clinical data. Mech Aging Dev 2001, 122:2041-2055.
  • Izquierdo I: Role of NMDA receptors in memory. Trends Pharmacol Sci 1991, 12:128-129.
  • Furey ML, Pietrini P, Haxby JV: Cholinergic enhancement and increased selectivity of perceptual processing during working memory. Science 2000, 290:2315-2319.

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Outros Benefícios

Alpha-GPC Possible Benefits:

Medline summary:

Alpha-GPC or GPC has been documented extensively by published studies in both animals and humans to contribute to at least five (5) significant human health functions.

These relevant ‘mind-body’ activities include, but may not be limited to the following:

1. Increases human Growth Hormone (hGH)

Increases in endogenous human Growth Hormone (hGH) secretion by the anterior pituitary in conjunction with Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH); that is, both Alpha-GPC and GHRH act concertedly to stimulate the release of hGH, naturally;

2. Improved mental focus and stimulation of cognitive function

Stimulation of the enzymatic synthesis of phosphatidylcholine (PC) in nerves, muscle cells and all cell membranes, counteracting the age-related decrease in phospholipid (PC) biosynthesis; thus, Alpha-GPC contributes directly to improved mental focus and stimulation of cognitive function;

3. More strength from work-outs and training programs

Acts as a precursor of acetylcholine (ACh); thus, Alpha-GPC activates cholinergic transmission which permits the development of more strength from work-outs and training programs, plus reducing levels of somatostatin in the hypothalamic-pituitary axis;

4. Improved lipotrophic functions in the liver

Elevations in blood and tissue levels of the essential nutrient, choline, which supports improved lipotrophic functions (methyl group transferases) in the liver. Research has shown that fatty liver, a condition associated with obesity, diabetes and heavy alcohol consumption, often leads to cirrhosis of the liver or liver failure. Studies conducted by Alan L. Buchman, M.D., associate professor of medicine at The Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University, have shown that fatty liver can be prevented and possibly even eliminated with increased levels of choline. Alpha-GPC also acts synergistically with the body’s store (and/or supplementation) of S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAM or SAMe) and folic acid, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6 to facilitate methyl group transfers in the brain and liver;

5. Improved balanced and coordination

Produces improved balanced and coordination when combined with ‘skill set’ practice and training as a result of normalized nerve transmission in the brain, and in cardiac, skeletal and smooth muscles.

More Alpha-GPC Information & Possible Benefits:

Alpha-GPC has been shown to potentiate the effects of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) and increase human growth hormone (hGH) secretion in young and elderly individuals. Alpha-GPC also affects numerous biochemical and neurotransmitter systems that have been implicated in the development of age-related memory dysfunction (ARMD).

Administration of Alpha-GPC has been shown to improve neuropsychological parameters in patients with SDAT and ARMD. Alpha-GPC also improves memory and cognitive performance. Alpha-GPC has been shown to reduce the recovery time in comatose patients suffering from head injury and antagonize the effects of scopolamine to improve memory, attention, and performance in healthy individuals. Alpha-GPC’s cognitive and growth hormone (GH) enhancing effects appear to be primarily the result of stimulation of the cholinergic neurotransmitter system; however, other biochemically-related modulations and neurotransmitter systems have been implicated.

Alpha-GPC improves memory, attention, and performance in healthy individuals. Alpha-GPC’s cognitive and growth hormone (GH) enhancing effects appear to be primarily the result of stimulation of the cholinergic neurotransmitter system; however, other biochemically-related modulations and neurotransmitter systems have been implicated.

Aging and prolonged stress – including athletic endeavors like marathons or ‘ironman/ironwoman’ events are associated with decreased hormone production, especially reduced secretion of human Growth Hormone (hGH) from the anterior pituitary. These life events are also associated with lower levels of free choline in the blood and tissues. Concomitantly, both quality of life and lifespan decrease, sexual desire and potency diminish, muscles loose both protein (mass) and tone, and body fat levels increase.

In clinical situations, significantly reduced secretion of hGH is associated with short stature, generalized muscle wasting, andropause, anxiety, undesirable mood and affect changes which are often associated with depression, abnormal sleep patterns, loss of energy and stamina, and decreased cellular and humoral (antibody) immune functions leading to increased susceptibility to disease.

Fate and distribution studies demonstrate that orally administered Alpha-GPC is absorbed quickly from the gastrointestinal tract and is transported in the blood to all cells and tissues, especially the brain. Alpha-GPC crosses the ‘blood-brain’ barrier and acts as a central nervous system (CNS) cholinergic stimulant while it simultaneously increases the GHRH-stimulated secretion of hGH by the somatotrophe cells in the anterior pituitary. The current understanding of Alpha-GPC’s actions in the brain is that it increases hGH secretion in the pituitary by two (2) separate but interacting neuro-endocrine mechanisms; these are:

1. Modulatory – increasing cholinergic tone lending to decreased levels of somatostatin (produced by the hypothalamus), as a result of the administration of Alpha-GPC;

2. Regulatory – stimulation of hGH synthesis resulting from ‘up regulation’ of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone/Factor (GHRH/GHRF) in conjunction with receptor-linked stimulation of the adenylate cyclase (cAMP)-Protein kinase C (PKC)-inositol triphosphate (IP3) intracellular control mechanisms regulating hGH synthesis at the genomic level and its subsequent secretion by the anterior pituitary.

Alpha-GPC has been administered to over three thousand (3,000) patients and volunteers in clinical trials and studies that have been published in the peer-reviewed literature. Minor, transient side effects have been reported to occur at a one percent (1%) frequency; these side effects, for orally administered Alpha-GPC, included diarrhea, dizziness, gastralgis, heartburn, insomnia, restlessness and skin rashes, which resolved when the amount of Alpha-GPC administered was either decreased or eliminated.

Alpha-GPC in the mental recovery of brain injury.

Institute of Internal Medicine and Geriatrics, University of Palermo, Italy.

The clinical efficacy and the tolerability of alpha-glycerophosphocholine (alpha-GPC), a natural plant extract able to provide high levels of choline for the nervous cells of the brain and to protect their cell walls, have been tested in a clinical open multicenter trial on 2044 patients suffering from recent disrupted bloodflow induced brain injury. Alpha-GPC was administered after the attack at the daily dose of 1000 mg im for 28 days and orally at the dose of 400 mg tid during the following 5 months after the first phase. The evaluation of the efficacy on the psychic recovery was done by the Mathew Scale (MS) during the period of im drug administration, and using the Mini Mental State Test (MMST), the Crichton Rating Scale (CRS), and the Global Deterioration Scale (GDS) during the following period of oral administration. The MS mean increased 15.9 points in 28 days in a statistically significant way (p < 0.001) from 58.7 to 74.6. At the end of the 5 month oral administration, the CRS mean significantly decreased 4.3 points, from 20.2 to 15.9 (p < 0.001); the MMST mean significantly increased (p < 0.001) from 21 to 24.3 at the end of the trial, reaching the “normality” score at the 3rd month assessment. The GDS score at the end of the trial corresponded to “no cognitive decline” or “forgetfulness” in 71% of the patients. Adverse events were complained of by 44 patients (2.14%); in 14 (0.7%) the investigator preferred to discontinue therapy. The most frequent complaints were heartburn (0.7%), nausea-vomit (0.5%), insomnia-excitation (0.4%), and headache (0.2%). The trial confirms the therapeutic role of alpha-GPC on the cognitive recovery of patients with disrupted bloodflow induced brain injury, and the low percentage of adverse events confirms its excellent tolerability.(ann ny acad sci 1994 June)

Alpha-GPC Possible Side Effects:

At this time there are no clinically proven side effects with Alpha-GPC when used appropriately. If you are taking any prescribed drugs from your physician, please check the <a href="http://3rdparty.naturalstandard.com/content/interactionHTML/interaction-basic.asp" style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(17, 17, 17); " target="_blank" title="Drug Interactions">Drug Interactions before taking this nutritional supplement.

Postado (editado)

Ainda sobre a vit K2, comparação entre os tipos mk4 e mk7. Pra quem esá interessado em suplementar vejam a diferença brutal de eficácia e pq não se deve usar mk4 em doses baixas:

Comparação da meia vida entra as duas:

fig_2.jpg

Níveis plasmáticos, não consegui entender qto tempo depois....

fig_7.jpg

Diferença nas dosagens necessárias para se ter os mesmo benefícios:

fig_8.jpg

Artigo original em romeno, Segue a tradução do google:

http://translate.goo...le.html&act=url

Em português ainda não existe praticamente nada sobre essa vitamina por isso não postei muita coisa... Aqui ainda estão discutindo se a vit D teria algum benefício e se doses acima de 200 UI seriam seguras. rs

Dando continuidade a discussão sobre o GH, outra substância que estimula a sua liberação

Economizou na letra hein, dp vou achar meu óculos pra tentar ler! :P

valeu!

Editado por cyberots
  • 2 semanas depois...
Postado

"Tem sido sugerido que administração oral de GABA aumenta a quantidade de secreção do hormônio do crescimento humano, mas isso é questionável, uma vez que se desconhece se o GABA pode ultrapassar a barreira hematoencefálica. No entanto, quando administrado por via oral, o GABA tem efeitos fora do do sistema nervoso central (por exemplo, diminuição do tônus muscular)."

Por que quando ingerido ele diminui o tônus ?

Postado

"Tem sido sugerido que administração oral de GABA aumenta a quantidade de secreção do hormônio do crescimento humano, mas isso é questionável, uma vez que se desconhece se o GABA pode ultrapassar a barreira hematoencefálica. No entanto, quando administrado por via oral, o GABA tem efeitos fora do do sistema nervoso central (por exemplo, diminuição do tônus muscular)."

Por que quando ingerido ele diminui o tônus ?

"Nos dois casos, medo e ansiedade são neutralizados pelo ácido gama-aminobutírico (Gaba, na sigla em inglês), que desempenha um papel importante na regulação da excitabilidade neuronal ao longo de todo o sistema nervoso e que, nos seres humanos, é diretamente responsável pela regulação do tônus muscular."

--------------------------

Não sei te responder isso, mas numa breve pesquisa você já descobre que Gaba está diretamente associado ao Tônus Muscular. Amanha pesquisarei com mais calma.

Postado

"Nos dois casos, medo e ansiedade são neutralizados pelo ácido gama-aminobutírico (Gaba, na sigla em inglês), que desempenha um papel importante na regulação da excitabilidade neuronal ao longo de todo o sistema nervoso e que, nos seres humanos, é diretamente responsável pela regulação do tônus muscular."

--------------------------

Não sei te responder isso, mas numa breve pesquisa você já descobre que Gaba está diretamente associado ao Tônus Muscular. Amanha pesquisarei com mais calma.

To tomando Gaba há alguns dias e to curtindo os efeitos para o sono, sabe se tem alguma contraindicação no uso a longo prazo, efeitos colaterais ou algo assim? Achei ele até melhor que a melatonina!

Postado

To tomando Gaba há alguns dias e to curtindo os efeitos para o sono, sabe se tem alguma contraindicação no uso a longo prazo, efeitos colaterais ou algo assim? Achei ele até melhor que a melatonina!

Não sei sobre seus efeitos colaterais, mas se tiver algum to lascado...rs. Quando postei aqueles estudos pesquei muito sobre ele, e não achei NENHUM colateral, talvez tenha, mas não achei.

E na minha opinião

GABA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melatonina

É incrível o quão pesado meu sono ficou apos tomar GABA, nem para ir no banheiro eu levanto mais a noite. Tenho a impressão que a maior parte do meu sono passo na fase profunda. E também também mais disposição durante o dia.

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