È Possivel Crescer Somente Com Um Tipo De Exercício?

[Jay 55]

É consenso entre pessoal aqui q membros inferiores crescem mais com altas repetiçoes?

To lendo Dinosaur Training q o Iceman traduziu e ele fala isso ate propondo agachamento com 20 repetiçoes

Sobre treino com low rep e alta carga acredito q deve ter uma tecnica especial para essa execuçao nao deve ser simplesmente abaixar as repetiçoes e aumentar a carga

Alguem sabe algo a respeito ou algum texto q aborde isso?

Parabens Iceman pela iniciativa

[craw69 2267]

É consenso entre pessoal aqui q membros inferiores crescem mais com altas repetiçoes?

To lendo Dinosaur Training q o Iceman traduziu e ele fala isso ate propondo agachamento com 20 repetiçoes

Sobre treino com low rep e alta carga acredito q deve ter uma tecnica especial para essa execuçao nao deve ser simplesmente abaixar as repetiçoes e aumentar a carga

Alguem sabe algo a respeito ou algum texto q aborde isso?

Parabens Iceman pela iniciativa

Sobre pernas, é mais comum ter resultados com mais reps (nao necessariamente 20, mas algo na faixa de 10-12) do que low. A pratica tambem mostra que pernas costumam responder melhor pra volume alto (por ex, levantadores olimpicos tem pernas excelentes e treinam pernas com no max 5 reps [o normal é 1-3], mas tambem fazem um volume altissississimo); mas como tudo, tem as excecoes que treinam 1x10 agacho e ficam monstruosos.

Com base em naturais, o mais comum é sim ver pernas melhores com aqueles que treinam volume e reps maiores; porem existe um ponto que parece ainda mais determinante: a biomecanica/estrutura do individuo: é bem mais dificil ver alguem alto (1.80m+) e/ou com pernas longas (proporcionalmente dizendo) tendo, naturalmente, bons quads/posteriores. Geralmente os naturais que tem pernas boas ou sao baixinhos e/ou tem pernas curtas (o que permite uma ativacao/biomecanica muito mais eficiente).

Sobre o deload, foi discutido recentemente em um tópico no qual o Quisso e EdChabal foram contras: http://www.hipertrofia.org/forum/topic/51661-destreino/page__fromsearch__1

Abracos

[Jay 55]

Sobre pernas, é mais comum ter resultados com mais reps (nao necessariamente 20, mas algo na faixa de 10-12) do que low. A pratica tambem mostra que pernas costumam responder melhor pra volume alto (por ex, levantadores olimpicos tem pernas excelentes e treinam pernas com no max 5 reps [o normal é 1-3], mas tambem fazem um volume altissississimo); mas como tudo, tem as excecoes que treinam 1x10 agacho e ficam monstruosos.

Com base em naturais, o mais comum é sim ver pernas melhores com aqueles que treinam volume e reps maiores; porem existe um ponto que parece ainda mais determinante: a biomecanica/estrutura do individuo: é bem mais dificil ver alguem alto (1.80m+) e/ou com pernas longas (proporcionalmente dizendo) tendo, naturalmente, bons quads/posteriores. Geralmente os naturais que tem pernas boas ou sao baixinhos e/ou tem pernas curtas (o que permite uma ativacao/biomecanica muito mais eficiente).

Sobre o deload, foi discutido recentemente em um tópico no qual o Quisso e EdChabal foram contras: http://www.hipertrof...__fromsearch__1

Abracos

Entendi agora sobre altas repetiçoes no caso dos membros inferiores

Mas tava querendo saber como executar os basicos no caso supino e militar com low rep

Como é feito? Velocidade ? Concêntrica explosiva? Se tiver algum video q mostre

Acho q foi ate vc q comentou q nao é simplesmente abaixar a carga dos basicos e fazer low rep pois tem uma maneira correta de executar igual alguns fisiculturistas fazem

abraço

Editado Agosto 4, 2011 às 23:17 por Jay

[craw69 2267]

Entendi agora sobre altas repetiçoes no caso dos membros inferiores

Mas tava querendo saber como executar os basicos no caso supino e militar com low rep

Como é feito? Velocidade ? Concêntrica explosiva? Se tiver algum video q mostre

Acho q foi ate vc q comentou q nao é simplesmente abaixar a carga dos basicos e fazer low rep pois tem uma maneira correta de executar igual alguns fisiculturistas fazem

abraço

Nesse tópico mesmo eu falei sobre isso, nao me lembro em quais paginas, lembro que um post meu mais pro comeco do tópico e outro agora mais pro final falavam sobre... se tiver paciencia e interesse, dá uma procurada

Abracos

[quenca333 140]

se for o "agachamento com 20 repetições" que eu to pensando é bem diferente do convencional agachamento com 20 repetições.

releia isso ae

[kyo22 100]

A explicação sobre o deload é bem detalhada no Pratical Programming do Rippetoe.

Segue o texto resumido de um fórum gringo.

My bench is stuck now, and it won't go up. Why did I stall?

You will "stall" on some exercises faster than others. This is going to be a function of the following:

1) Experience with each exercise - if you have been benching for years or even months and you are only now deadlifting for the first time, you will stall on the bench long before you stall on the deadlift, unless you make enormous weight jumps on the deadlift. This is the most typical "reason" for the bench stalling so soon.

2) Mechanical Complexity of each exercise - the mechanical complexity of the squat is far greater than that of the bench press. You have far more going on in each of the involved joints with the squat than with the bench press. As a result, you will hit a wall on the bench press before the squat.

3) Musculature involved with each exercise - You use far more musculature in the deadlift and squat when compared to the press. This means that you have a larger host of potential weak points in the deadlift and squat that gets fixed with training. As your weak points get stronger, your lift will get stronger, so you will "stall" later in the program on this exercise because you have a greater # of potential weak points to address (and improve). The press is much easier to perform properly, so technique will be a limiting factor for a much shorter period of time.

4) Total "upper limit" of the exercise - this is a function of the musculature and complexity of the exercise. The more you can POSSIBLY lift on an exercise, the longer it will take to reach your genetic potential, and thus the longer it'll take before you actually stall. Generally, your strength will be as follows, from strongest to weakest (once you are "fully and proportionately developed")

Deadlift > Squat > Bench press/power clean > Barbell row > Standing press

What this means is that, once you are "fully and proportionately developed", assuming you don't have any type of injuries, oddities in your structure (i.e. super-short, stumpy arms; very small hands/weak grip; genetic deformity/malformation of your spine, etc), or problems with your mindset (i.e. you're a pussy who is afraid to squat or deadlift), your deadlift will end up being your strongest exercise relative to the others, and your standing press will be the weakest.

Now that you can recognize that it is normal for your presses and rows to stall before you deads and squats, you must determine WHY you are stalling.

There are 4 different reasons for stalling, in addition to the basic guidelines above. Rip mentions 2 of them in Practical Programming, I'm going to expand that to 4 due to the questions I've seen asked via the internet.

Are you stalling because:

1) You aren't doing what you are supposed to be doing for recovery? This includes dietary considerations (enough protein/carbs/fats? Enough vitamins? Enough water? Skipping meals or eating every 2-4 hours?) as well as rest considerations (go to sleep at 10 PM or 1 AM with an 8 AM class that morning?)

2) You aren't adding weight properly. Yes, I'm talking to you greedy bastards who decide that you can jump 10 lbs between bench workouts, or you decide to add a 25 to each side of the bar for your next squat workout.

3) You have recently added exercises (such as dips/chins/arm work) or made your own adjustments to the program in whatever manner.

4) You are doing everything right WRT rest, recovery and weight progression, but you are simply advancing closer to your genetic limitations.

#1 is easy to fix. Get your ass to sleep on time, eat properly. Don't change anything about your training for at least a week until you have made 100% sure that you got your 8 hours of sleep, and that you ate your necessary calories EVERYDAY, didn't skip meals, got proper protein/carbs/fats during the day and at crucial times (especially post-workout, breakfast, and before bed). You screwed yourself on this one, but this one is easy to fix. Fix it and progress as normal until #4 describes you.

#2 is easy to fix as well. Drop 5 lbs on your presses and rows (and cleans, drop 10 lbs on your squat and deadlift, and start back up. This time, however, be sure to only add 5 for presses/rows/cleans, and add 10 for squats and deadlifts. This will USUALLY fix the issue, depending upon how rapidly you added the weight. A problem exists when you were adding weight to exercises that you had no business adding weight to. We'll get to you folks in a moment, because you may have induced overtraining (systemic overtraining, not "biceps overtraining" or "pectoral overtraining", both of which are misnomers)

#3 is usually pretty easy to fix as well. Stop EVERYTHING, strip back to the basic 3 exercises for the day, add a set or three of abdominal work, and THAT IS IT. Make sure you have #1 above in line, and train for a few weeks with only the basic 3 and the ab work. You greedy bastards were CONVINCED that 10 sets of barbell curls and triceps pressdowns wouldn't hurt, and instead of teh big gunz and teh bicept peak, you got your asses buried! Good for you. Listen next time ya damn teenage know-it-all! (Yes, I was a teenage know-it-all.) (Hell, I'm a middle-aged know-it-all...nothing's changed, I'm just older and fatter!)

#4 is a "true stall". In other words, you are a coach's dream because you listened, did exactly what you were told, put forth full effort and intensity, you took your training (and especially your recovery/rest/nutrition) seriously, and yet you still hit the inevitable wall. See the questions regarding stalling and resetting.

Question - How do I know if I've 'officially stalled' and need to reset?

The following serves as an example. The #s are not exact, but they ARE representative, so if the weight change differences seem to describe you, then it applies to you, even if the exact poundages are different.

This assumes the average 150-200 lb teenage male. Make adjustments if you are older, smaller, or female.

Here is how training progression might look from week to week, assuming rest/recovery is ideal. When I say "bar speed", I'm making reference to your speed of movement in the concentric portion, i.e. are you really struggling and barely getting that last rep (bar speed very slow) or are you making that last rep nice and solid (bar speed good)

Squat:

135 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

145 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

155 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

165 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)

175 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - note missed reps workout after "bar speed very slow"

180 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good) - note 5lb jump = no missed reps + good bar speed, therefore, try a 10-lb jump again

190 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)

195 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good) - note slow bar speed = 5lb jump = no missed reps + good bar speed

200 x 5/5/5 (bar speed slow)

205 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - note attempt to correct bar speed and missed reps by very small incremental jump

207.5 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - missed reps, small jump, bar speed slow

210 x 5/4/3 (bar speed very slow) - more missed reps, very small jump, very slow bar speed, keep weight the same

210 x 5/3/3 (bar speed very slow) - again, missed reps with NO boost in weight used, attempt one more time

210 x 4/4/3 - time for a reset

Note how the weight progresses. 10-lb increments with steady bar speed means more 10-lb increments. Bar speed slows down or missed reps = half the increments (down to 5 or 2.5). Smaller incremental jumps in weight should eliminate missed reps as well as produce good bar speed. If you are missing reps, even after the smaller incremental jumps, then keep the weight the same. If you cannot hit your 15 reps even after keeping the weight the same for three consecutive workouts, then it is time to reset.

Bench:

135 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

140 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

145 x 5/5/5 (bar speed slow)

150 x 5/5/4 (bar speed slow)

155 x 5/5/4 (bar speed slow)

160 x 5/4/4 (bar speed very slow)

162.5 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

165 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

167.5 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow)

170 x 5/4/3 (bar speed very slow)

170 x 5/4/3 (bar speed very slow)

170 x 4/4/4 - time for a reset

Deadlift:

135 x 5/5/5

150 x 5/5/5

165 x 5/5/5

180 x 5/5/4

190 x 5/5/5

200 x 5/5/5

210 x 5/5/4

220 x 5/5/3

225 x 5/5/5

230 x 5/5/5

235 x 5/5/5

240 x 5/5/4

245 x 5/4/4

250 x 5/3/3

250 x 4/4/4

250 x 5/3/3 - time for a reset

By now, you should get the idea. Once the bar slows down, make note that you will probably need to reduce the weight jumps pretty soon. When you start missing a rep here or there, assuming you are resting and recovering properly, then you'll need to reduce the weight jumps. Once you start missing reps in multiple sets or multiple reps in one set, then keep the weight the same. If you can't get your 5/5/5 after using the same weight for 3 workouts, then it's time to reset.

I stalled on an exercise, what should I do? How do I "reset"?

First, if you haven't read "My bench is stuck now" as well as "How do I know if I'm officially stalled" then do so before proceeding.

Okay, assuming you read the above, and you are in "class #4" and you have 'officially stalled', then proceed as follows.

We'll use our stalled squat example:

Squat:

135 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

145 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

155 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good)

165 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)

175 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - note missed reps workout after "bar speed very slow"

180 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good) - note 5lb jump = no missed reps + good bar speed, therefore, try a 10-lb jump again

190 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)

195 x 5/5/5 (bar speed good) - note slow bar speed = 5lb jump = no missed reps + good bar speed

200 x 5/5/5 (bar speed slow)

205 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - note attempt to correct bar speed and missed reps by very small incremental jump

207.5 x 5/4/4 (bar speed slow) - missed reps, small jump, bar speed slow

210 x 5/4/3 (bar speed very slow) - more missed reps, very small jump, very slow bar speed, keep weight the same

210 x 5/3/3 (bar speed very slow) - again, missed reps with NO boost in weight used, attempt one more time

210 x 4/4/3 - time for a reset

Again, note that we started with 10-lb jumps. We started missing reps shortly after bar speed slowed down. This isn't so much causitive as it is indiciative. Finally, we obviously hit the wall because we could not reach the 5/5/5 requirement despite using the same weight for 3 consecutive workouts.

How to proceed? Proceed by dropping 10% from your stalled weight, or as follows:

~~~~~

210 x 5/4/3 (bar speed very slow) - more missed reps, very small jump, very slow bar speed, keep weight the same

210 x 5/3/3 (bar speed very slow) - again, missed reps with NO boost in weight used, attempt one more time

210 x 4/4/3 - time for a reset

170 x 5/5/5

180 x 5/5/5

190 x 5/5/5

200 x 5/5/5

210 x 5/5/5 - back to previous missed weight during 2nd week

215 x 5/5/5 - note reduced weight advancement, only 5 lbs instead of 10 per workout

220 x 5/5/5 - etc.

Question - What happens if I've gotten a lot weaker in a couple of my lifts? Should I just reset?

Chances are good that a basic reset won't work. If you've actually regressed in your training for a few workouts, i.e. something like the following:

165 x 5/5/5 (bar speed very slow)

170 x 5/4/4 (bar speed very slow)

172.5 x 5/4/4 (bar speed very slow)

175 x 4/3/2 (bar speed very slow)

175 x 4/2/2 (technique breakdown)

175 x 3/2/1 (bar weighed "a ton")

then a simple 10% drop won't cut the mustard. You will need a more intensive "reset"". If it only happens on one exercise, while your other exercises are progressing along, then no biggie. We can just do a bigger reset. If it is happening on a few of your exercises, or if you have already reset once or twice, then you probably need to do a deload and make a switch to your training planning and progression. That's right Willie, you're no longer a newb!

Anyway, the 'more intensive reset' would look something like the following:

175 x 4/3/2 (bar speed very slow)

175 x 4/2/2 (technique breakdown)

175 x 3/2/1 (bar weighed "a ton")

Do only warmups

160 x 5 (weight felt kinda heavy)

160 x 5/5 (weight felt a bit heavy on 2nd set)

160 x 5/5/5 weight felt pretty light

165 x 5/5/5 weight felt pretty light

170 x 5/5/5 weight felt pretty light

172.5 x 5/5/5 weight felt a bit heavy

175 x 5/5/5 weight felt properly challenging

177.5 x 5/5/5 weight felt properly challenging

A few points of note.

1) Do not skip a workout (yet). Just do the exercise, but stop at the warmups. Don't do a full "work set" yet.

2) The first workout will be 1 set of 5 with ~10% less weight than the previous stall point.

3) The second workout will add a 2nd and 3rd work set, but only if the weight feels pretty light.

4) Once 3 work sets @ ~10% less than previous PR are established, move upward in normal increments, workout-by-workout, until you get back to the previous stall point

5) Proceed with the smallest weight increments beyond the stall point

This is an obviously more intense backoff period than a basic reset, and will usually only be done once before a full-on deload and "upgrade" to the programming is necessary.

How often can I reset before I know it's time to move on?

Generally only 2 resets for the squat and perhaps 1 for the deadlift will be done before it's time to move on. As long as these 2 exercises are still moving up, however, there is no need to change programming. If you need to do a "bigtime reset" as described above, or if you are stalling on multiple exercises at once, then it is time to move on as well.

[Kiki22 107]

Deload???

[Mion 16]

se for o "agachamento com 20 repetições" que eu to pensando é bem diferente do convencional agachamento com 20 repetições.

releia isso ae

kkkkk'...é BEMMMM diferente, é muito longe do que qualquer iniciante ou intermediário com um bom tempo de academia pode fazer! É logico q funciona pra caraammmba, com um peso q vc choraria para fazer 5 reps. ter q fazer 20 reps. em 2 series, é o BiiXO! ...rsrs ...Esses é o Dinosaur Training...

Esse ser só um comentário, as perguntas dele ja serem respondidas!

[Jay 55]

se for o "agachamento com 20 repetições" que eu to pensando é bem diferente do convencional agachamento com 20 repetições.

releia isso ae

Qual agachamento q vc ta pensando?

Me refiro ao agachamento de 20 rep com carga bem alta proposto no livro Dinosaur Training traduzido pelo Iceman

É uma série apenas de 20 rep?

So nao entendi no livro se o treino de quadriceps se resume a "apenas" a esse agachamento e nao faz mais nada depois

[craw69 2267]

Qual agachamento q vc ta pensando?

Me refiro ao agachamento de 20 rep com carga bem alta proposto no livro Dinosaur Training traduzido pelo Iceman

É uma série apenas de 20 rep?

So nao entendi no livro se o treino de quadriceps se resume a "apenas" a esse agachamento e nao faz mais nada depois

Nao me lembro do livro todo, mas geralmente o agacho 20 reps que é citado é o Breathing Squats (pesquise por ele, ou Super Squats, ou 20-rep-Squat).

O peso utilizado é a sua 10-12RM, porem voce faz 20 reps sem guardar a barra; faz as 10-12 primeiras reps normal e quando sentir que nao aguenta mais, ao invés de guardar, mantem a barra e respira, faz mais uma rep, respira, faz mais uma... até fechar 20. A série bem feita leva pelo menos uns 2mins30s-3 mins, pelo menos.

Nao é um agacho com peso pra 20 reps, na pratica fica um agacho com peso pra 10 repeticoes porem com rest-pause (mais ou menos )