Primeiro Ciclo - Oxandrolona

[aribaz 8]

outra coisa galera, estou pensando em comprar um estimulante de testosterona que chama brutal anadrol ( http://www.biotechusa.com/brutal-anadrol.html )

seria melhor eu tomar junto com a oxan, ou depois do ciclo ?

[aribaz 8]

up

[Leandro.x 22]

Por que optou por fazer um ciclo somente de Oxandrolona?

Use o Tamoxifeno.

Abraços

Me dê um motivo para não usar.

é que você tem que ver né drowning, é um medicamento muuuito caro, e difícil de conseguir.

[/sarcasmo]

não tem pq não usar: http://www.ultrafarma.com.br/index.php?codcham=CDP0101&produto_id=27870

Tamoxifeno, tem mais colaterais que a própria Oxandrolona.

Abraço

Editado Junho 6, 2011 às 16:53 por Leandro.x

[SrBigode 19]

Tamoxifeno, tem mais colaterais que a própria Oxandrolona.

Abraço

sim sim, oxan eh muito mais suave q tamox...

nos eua o pessoal usa ox por 12 meses continuos e quando acabam , nem tpc mandam , e na dosagem de 50mg tsd

aqui uma breve explicacao sobre os efeitos do tamox : http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/taking-anabolic-steroids-101-a-642856.html post numero 6

What Is Nolvadex/Tamoxifen?

Tamoxifen is considered as the antagonist of the estrogen receptor which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. It is interesting to note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard endocrine for the treatment of early breast cancer patients. It is therefore used as an anti estrogen therapy and it is mainly given to postmenopausal women. The role of an estrogen is to bind as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor. Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound. Nonetheless, results vary from person to person and the use of Tamoxifen cannot be deduced as a permanent cure for breast cancer patients.

It is ideally a drug which is taken orally in the form of an edible tablet and it is known to interfere with the activity of the estrogen levels present in the breast tissue. It has been studied that unless the estrogen levels in the human body are kept under strict control, they can lead to breast cancer. Tamoxifen has primarily been used for the past 30 years for treating patients suffering from breast cancer. It has also been administered to patients who are in their early stages of breast cancer. Even patients whose breast cancer has spread to various parts of the body have been known to use Tamoxifen on a regular basis. It has been stated that this drug has the ability to stop cancer cells from spreading within the human body but ironically there is no substantial study which clearly backs this statement with the help of substantial proof. Nonetheless, owing to the hype that it has received via media, people who are having breast cancer or those women who run the risk of developing breast cancer have been known to take this medicine on a regular basis. Interestingly, it has also been seen that women who are suffering from ductul carcinoma in stu, which in turn is similar to invasive breast cancer, have also been known to administer this medicine on a regular basis.

In the past 20 years steroid users have been using Nolvadex for a number of reasons. To ether help reduce bloat or gynecomastia problems during a cycle or after a cycle to help recovery natural test production. In men, Tamoxifen "nolvaldex" is sometimes used by steroid-taking, weight-training athletes.An alternative and highly similar compound is Clomiphene citrate "Clomid". These drugs are used as anti-estrogen therapy. In this regard, the drug is used for three purposes. The first purpose, is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increase the circulating level of estrogens since they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen in men, can be caused by taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. dianabol, anadrol or testosterone. In dosing with a dosing with 20 mg of Novaldex (Tamoxifen) for the duration of a steroid cycle, a reduction in water retention can be achieved. This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscle.

Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome for a weight training athlete, as the temporary increase in water weight within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the steroid cycle. Said water will dissipate once usage of steroids has ceased, and a dramatic loss in weight can be observed. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gynecomastia, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, or used at the onset of any symptoms e.g. nipple soreness/sensitivity. In the latter case, dosing reverses the affliction

However it Is now well known that well taking Nolvadex serum level estrogen raises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle,during PCT,or after PCT to prevent estrogen rebound. (how retarded). Studies have of course shown the its use can cause a rise in lh - leutenizing hormone - and test production but at what cost? Many other factors must be taken into account.

All this is happening in complete ignorance as they are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects that can prove fatal in the longer run. At the same time robbing ones self of a better PCT and cycle from using drugs like this.

Though I do feel its "ok" to use them "if you must" but use as little as you can and use support/PCT sups to help alleviate the side effects and bad feelings one gets from these harsh drugs.

Where Was This drug Discovered?

Interestingly, this drug was discovered by AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals which were earliest known as ICI pharmaceuticals. It is now sold under various trade names such as Nolvadex, Valodex and Istubal. Although it is sold under various names, it is primarily known and porly termed as Tamoxifen. Although this drug is widely used in treating breast cancer patients, it also has adverse side effects which very few people are actually aware off.

Once praised for its benefits in preventing breast cancer recurrence, the lucrative pharmaceutical drug Tamoxifen is now implicated in causing dangerous side-effects, including other types of cancers.

In the early 1970's, a shameful chapter closed on the widespread use of a known carcinogenic and endocrine-disrupting drug called DES (diethylstilboestrol), the first synthetic, non-steroidal estrogen drug. Against the advice of its creator, Sir Charles Dodd, between four and six million American and European women and 10,000 Australian women innocently used DES for the prevention of miscarriage and pregnancy complications.

In addition, DES became a por though unproven drug for a variety of other conditions. It was used for the suppression of lactation, the treatment of acne, the treatment of certain types of breast and prostatic cancer, and as an inhibitor of growth in young girls, an estrogen replacement in menopause and a "morning after" pill.

It would take 30 years to accept what laboratory tests had indicated as early as 1938 — that DES was a highly dangerous and harmful drug. It was reported that, 20 years after taking DES, mothers had a 40 to 50 per cent greater risk of breast cancer than non-exposed mothers. In addition, the children of DES mothers showed a high incidence of reproductive abnormalities, miscarriages, vaginal cancer, testicular cancer, sterility and immune dysfunction. In fact, it is feared that repercussions of this drug will be felt for generations to come.

The irony of this entire debacle is that the medical establishment finally acknowledged that DES was useless in preventing miscarriages. Thus, DES, another disastrous experiment on women, was added to the long list of major medical blunders.

Out of this early research, a new drug appeared on the horizon which would be soon be heralded as a shining star in the war against the growing epidemic of breast cancer. In the late 1960's the pharmaceutical industry developed a drug called "Tamoxifen". As a synthetic, non-steroidal compound with hormone-like effects (many of which are poorly understood), Tamoxifen has a similar structure to DES. In fact, it was observed that Tamoxifen caused the same abnormal changes seen in cells of women taking estradiol and DES. This similarity raised alarm bells for some.

Pierre Blais, well known as a drug researcher who was ejected from Canada's health protection bureaucracy when he spoke out about silicone breast implants, describes the story of Tamoxifen as "the story of modern drug design which produces garbage drugs". He says, "Good drug design ceased, unfortunately, in the 1930s." Tamoxifen, Blais asserts, "...is a garbage drug that made it to the top of the s heap. It is a DES in the making."

Blais's dire predictions were ignored with the promise of a potential drug treatment for breast cancer. Tamoxifen was first approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use as a birth-control pill; however, it proved to induce rather than inhibit ovulation.(just goes to show how retarded they truly are) Although Tamoxifen didn't work as a contraceptive, it was found to lower mammary cancer rates in animals. Animal studies showed that Tamoxifen prevented estrogen from binding to receptor sites on breast tissue cells. Tamoxifen also reduced the incidence of breast cancer in rodents after administration of a breast-carcinogenic substance. This discovery provided the impetus to study its effects in treating human breast cancer.

Estrogen is the common link between most breast cancer risk factors, i.e., genetic, reproductive, dietary, lifestyle and environmental. It both stimulates the division of breast cells (healthy as well as cancerous) and, especially in its 'bad' form, increases the risk of breast cancer. Thus, hormonal drugs such as Tamoxifen that block the effects of estrogen on the breast were expected to reduce the risk of breast cancer recurring in women treated for breast cancer.

Tamoxifen acts as a weak estrogen by competing for estrogen receptors much as phyto-estrogens do(I want you to keep this word PHYTO ESTROGENS IN MIND WE WILL COVER IT AGAIN LATER). Like phyto-estrogens, Tamoxifen has mild estrogenic properties but is considered an anti-estrogen since it inhibits the activity of regular estrogens. More accurately, Tamoxifen is an estrogen-blocker(Not a estrogen reducer)

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...tract/73/1/171

Yes the test shows over time that both lh - leutenizing hormone - and androgins were raised, but at the same time (serum level estrogen was tripled)and thus the reason many experence rebound gynecomastia after its use.

Tamoxifen fights breast cancer by competing with estrogen for space on estrogen receptors in the tumor tissue. Every Tamoxifen molecule that hooks onto an estrogen receptor prevents an estrogen molecule from linking up at the same site. Without a steady supply of estrogen, cells in an estrogen-receptor-positive (ER+) tumor do not thrive and the tumor's ability to spread is reduced.

However, Tamoxifen exhibited two conflicting characteristics. It could act either as an anti-estrogen or as an estrogen. Therefore, while Tamoxifen is anti-estrogenic to the breast, it also acts as an estrogen to the uterus and, to a lesser extent, the heart, blood vessels and bone. Moreover Tamoxifen also acts as an estrogen in the Liver thus causing the lowering of IGF-1

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf

Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women

Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- s et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

For people suffering from breast cancer I guess this would be a good thing. Since Lowering IGF would reduce the growth of everything. However this is not one any of the people using nolva for PCT or on cycle use want now is it?

So, although it initially showed the tendency to counter breast cancer recurrence, it would soon be revealed that it also promoted particularly aggressive uterine and Liver cancers, caused fatal blood clots and interfered with many other functions.

Doctors, however, were quick to jump on the Tamoxifen bandwagon, turning a blind eye to its more injurious tendencies. Starting in the 1970's oncologists began using Tamoxifen to treat women with cancer, often in combination with other drugs, radiation or surgery such as lumpectomy and mastectomy, with modest success. Like DES, Tamoxifen's benefits were then extended for use as a preventive against osteoporosis and heart disease.

Today, doctors are treating about one million American breast cancer patients with Tamoxifen, about 20 per cent of them for more than five years. As studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1989 and the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1992 showed, women with breast cancer who took Tamoxifen reduced their chances of developing cancer in the other breast (contralateral cancer) by about 30 to 50 per cent. These findings would later be challenged.

Tamoxifen is now recommended for all pre-menopausal women with hormone-positive cancers, as well as for most postmenopausal women with breast cancer and/or a growing number of women with hormone-negative cancers. Tamoxifen is currently used by more women with breast cancer than any other drug.

Tamoxifen (brand name Nolvadex) is now the most widely prescribed cancer medication in the world. It generated revenues of US $265 million in 1992. By 1995, worldwide sales of Nolvadex reached $400 million. (7) And at AUD $90 for one month's supply, it doesn't come cheap (the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme covers $70).

Global sales of Tamoxifen in 2001 were $1,024 million.[54] Since the expiration of the patent in 2002, it is now widely available as a generic drug around the world. Barr Labs Inc had challenged the patent (which in 1992 was ruled unenforcable) but later came to an agreement with Zeneca to licence the patent and sell Tamoxifen at close to Zeneca's price.[55] As of 2004, Tamoxifen was the world's largest selling hormonal drug on record and off record may be the number 1 selling drug in word of all time to date. So we are truly talking about billions in revenue world wide for drug companies,sources,ug's and more. Money is at the root of this drug and why its so heavily pushed on all forums by everyone. Its cheap to make and it brings in billions plain and simple.

These numbers are nothing compared to what this drug now makes for the drug companies,sources.ug's selling it. So you can bet your life they will make sure every test and study in the world is published to make sure its seen in a good light. This not even including its "off label use" Ie all us men using it for on cycle and PCT. The use of the drug for this reason triples its sales and you can just emagen the amount of money its making. You do the math my friends!. At this very moment 500000000 sources and people with monitary ties to this drug are out there pushing like crazy to make sure you and everyone else keeps its use for PCT alive. This is the #1 reason why we have not given up on this years ago.

Tamoxifen was developed by UK-based Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), one of the world's largest multinational chemical corporations. Zeneca, an ICI subsidiary, is responsible for manufacturing and marketing the hormone and is now the world's largest cancer-drug company.

CARCINOGENENIC EFFECTS

It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that Tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that Tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of Tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

In California there is a law called "Proposition 65" that requires the state to publish and maintain a list of all known carcinogens. In May 1995, the state's Carcinogen Identification Committee voted unanimously to add Tamoxifen to its list.

When research is done on anti-cancer drugs (such as SERMs), the aim is to find a drug that prolongs life, with the least amount of acute side-effects. In other words, the goal isn’t so much about finding a cure, as it is finding something that can alleviate the symptoms and/or prolong life.

When it comes to steroid users so many are willing to forgo any and everything to get the one simple effect they desire (recovery). The pority of these drugs stems from the por advice to use these drugs for everything from testosterone recovery. ,make your grow bigger, increase the amount of jiz you drop on a girls face, and everything in between. Advice on its use is handed out like candy and everyones got a sweat tooth for quick advice. Of course many "vets and so called know it alls" defend it to the death and it can do no wrong. Mainly do to not wanting to be wrong,habit,they got money involved with it, or just for the sake of argument.

“Its FDA approved for cancer treatment. It must be safe!”

It’s wrong to assume that an “FDA approved” drug has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for Tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the Tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with Tamoxifen use. Zeneca also reported adverse effects similar to those seen with DES, such as reproductive abnormalities in the animals whose mothers received Tamoxifen. (remember, DES was the original synthetic estrogen, and also an analog to Tamoxifen)

A number of cancer researchers have pointed out the health risks too, such as Elwood et al (6) -

“[Tamoxifen], therefore, is not appropriate for use in the general potion because of the known increased risk of endometrial cancer”

What Are Side Effects Of Temoxifen

You Can Get Blood Clots!

Have you any idea that a regular dosage of Tamoxifen can actually increase the chances of blood clots? Well, this is a true fact and can be fatal for those who are using this drug to get rid or avoid the chance of getting gynecomastia on cycle and or for PCT. According to recent medical studies, it has been noticed that people who have been using Tamoxifen on a regular basis have had a substantial increase in terms of their blood clots. Hence, as compared to those people who are not using this drug, their chances of getting blood clots is relatively higher.

A blood clot can be defined as an internal body mechanism by which the cut can be stopped from bleeding excessively. The proteins present in your blood work along with the platelets and in a bid to form a clot. This is also termed as coagulation. In the event of an injury, this can prove to be really very effective as it would stop the flow of blood from your wound and thus save your life. Nonetheless, if the blood clots while it is moving through your body, it can prove fatal. This is also termed as hyper coagulation and it can prove very dangerous for the concerned individual. Tamoxifen has been known to cause hyper coagulation and hence, it needs to be taken under strict medical supervision.

When the study was conducted, it was ascertained that a relatively large number of people developed this conditions and although not many people using this drug were actually studied, those that were using it regularly, were in a shock to find out that it also led to blood clots.

Hence, although this drug is helpful to a certain extent, we need to also see that the extent of damage it can do to our body in terms of hazardous blood clots are much more and hence, you as a steroid user need to exercise caution and spend some quality time researching on this so called ‘wonder-drug’ before making it an eminent part of your daily routine and or PCT.

One of the main reasons why a blood clot is considered dangerous is because this drug causes a clot inside the blood vessel which in turn is known as thrombus. What happens is that at times this blood clot can travel through your blood streams and get pushed into your lungs. When this happens, you can be rest assured that your life is in acute danger as this condition is life threatening. This condition is also known as pulmonary embolus. Similarly, a clot this clot can also block the blood vessels in the brain and this in turn may lead to a stroke. When this blood clot clocks the blood vessels of your heart, it stops the blood from rushing to your heart area thereby reducing the oxygen supply to that area. This in turn leads to cardiac arrest.

All the above mentioned conditions arising from blood clots, which in turn are caused from a regular intake of Tamoxifen, can prove to be life threatening for the concerned individual. Hence, even before you decide to take this medication on a regular basis, you need to exercise caution and be prepared to face the ill effects of this so called ‘wonder-drug’.

Increased susceptibility to gynecomastia -

Tamoxifen is often used to combat gynecomastia during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While Tamoxifen may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gynecomastia.

This is caused by Tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. (54-56) This can dramatically increase the chances of developing gynecomastia in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as nandrolone (deca) or trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

It is interesting to speculate. Is Tamoxifen use directly related to the increased gynecomastia occurrences seen with modern day steroid users?

You Can Develop Cataract!

Cataract can be defined as a thin white layer of membrane which blocks the passing light to the RetinA thereby clouding your vision. Although it is relatively painless, it does cloud your vision and can even blind you if it is not removed through the means of a surgical procedure. The RetinA is ideally a nerve layer which is located at the back of the eye socket and its main purpose is to direct the light which is entering the eye via the means of electromagnetic signals to the brain. Once the brain receives these nerve signals, it is passed on to the nervous system, after which you can transform your vision into clear moving pictures. If this thin layer of membrane is blocked owing to any reason, you would have problems with your vision.

While aging is looked on as the major cause behind cataract, it has recently been noticed that patients using Tamoxifen have been identified as ones susceptible to cataract on a regular basis. people who are aging and using this drug on a regular basis are on a higher risk of contracting cataract as compared to those who are not using Tamoxifen. The other eye problems that can be faced by individuals include scarring of the corneal area and abrupt retinal changes.

In case you are using this drug regularly and you have a cloudy, fuzzy or foggy vision, you need to get your eyesight checked with immediate effect. In case you are unable to withstand the glare of lamps and are unable to catch a glimpse of the morning sun, then again you need to get your eyes checked. This is so because, Temoxifen has a natural tendency to obstruct the normal eye vision and if you do suffer from this symptom, you may not be able to drive at night as the headlamps of the opposing vehicle may blind you momentarily.

In order to get rid of cataract that has been developed owing to a continuous intake of Temoxifen, you may need to undergo a corrective surgery. In case you want to delay a surgical procedure, you may want to light up your room with plenty of tubes and bulbs and keep your eyeglass up to date with the latest prescription. Ideally, the only known cure for cataract that has been a resultant of Temoxifen is a surgical procedure.

If you would like to avoid this problem, you would have to seek an alternative to Temoxifen at the earliest given opportunity.

Libido reduction & erectile dysfunction

Erectile dysfunction ow Libido, and general impotence are typical complaints from men recently discontinuing steroids or HRT therapy, which is often combated by Clomid or Nolvadex, paradoxically so.

Regardless of any positive effects on fertility or testosterone levels, Clomid and Nolvadex use is highly correlated with erectile dysfunction, Libido suppression, and even emotional disorders Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased Libido, and thrombosis associated with Tamoxifen use. he thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERMs may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue (as discussed before)

nolva/Clomid both raise sex hormone binding globulin .

This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on Tamoxifen,Clomid or nolva raises sex hormone binding globulin or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.

Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine

iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ sex hormone binding globulin ]

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):Pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare

Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

2. nolva lowers IGF-1 Again just a simple search on (Tamoxifen or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf

Effect of low dose Tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women

Comparison of Tamoxifen and testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- s et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by Tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result

Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte

SpringerLink - Journal Article

Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy

Elsevier: Article Locator

Estrogen and Triglycerides

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../11/8/1067.pdf

WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia

[drowning 52]

Ok, não use nada.

[RyanMM 5]

pow eu gosto de ler sobre tudo, e até queria sobre esses efeito do tamox, mas esse wall of text ae ta tenso kkkkkk, desisti na hora

sobre esse brutal anadrol ae, é joga dinheiro no lixo, é um tribulus disfarçado com outras coisas subdosadas.

eu mandaria uma testo como propianato ou fenilpropi nesse ciclo ae e fazia uma tpc certinha, mas vc que sabe.

[E.Junior 4]

Eu tambem jogaria um propianato ai, vai dar mais massa e nao vai fujir do seu objetivo brother, mas se eu fosse só usar oxan , eu nao faria tpc

Abraço

[aribaz 8]

Tamoxifeno, tem mais colaterais que a própria Oxandrolona.

Abraço

cara, valeu pela explicacao curta e objetiva !

li tambem o texto do parceiro ai em baixo sobre tamox, MUITO OBRIGADO esclareceu todas as duvidas

vou comecar a tomar semana q vem

e nao vou tomar testo junto, to de boa de ganhar massa, sou feliz frango do jeito q sou hahaha

e eu vou postando o acompanhamento, ganhos e etc.

valeu mesmo, um abraco !

ps: um amigo descolou DIANABOL e ja esta tomando, teve ganhos rapidos.

mas eu vou ficar com a oxan pois meu objetivo eh forca e definicao

é que você tem que ver né drowning, é um medicamento muuuito caro, e difícil de conseguir.

[/sarcasmo]

não tem pq não usar: http://www.ultrafarma.com.br/index.php?codcham=CDP0101&produto_id=27870

po cara, vc recomendou eu tomar tamox sem mesmo se informar direito ?

o parceiro disse que tem mais efeito colateral que a propria oxan.

pow eu gosto de ler sobre tudo, e até queria sobre esses efeito do tamox, mas esse wall of text ae ta tenso kkkkkk, desisti na hora

sobre esse brutal anadrol ae, é joga dinheiro no lixo, é um tribulus disfarçado com outras coisas subdosadas.

eu mandaria uma testo como propianato ou fenilpropi nesse ciclo ae e fazia uma tpc certinha, mas vc que sabe.

cara valeu, pode crer nao vou comprar essa porra nao, nem tribulus.

vo mantendo com creatina e oxido nitrico, amino e whey

Eu tambem jogaria um propianato ai, vai dar mais massa e nao vai fujir do seu objetivo brother, mas se eu fosse só usar oxan , eu nao faria tpc

Abraço

valeu parceiro ! pois eh, tenho 3 amigos que fizeram ciclo de oxan e nao fizeram TPC, seguraram por volta dos 80 % dos resultados

[TEUMINA 3]

Olha cara, eu na faria tpc não, digo eu!

e se for fazer mandaria um clomid, seu eixo seria recuperado muito mais rapido!

e sobre a quantidade eu mandaria entre 60~80mg por dia e por umas 6 semanas a 8.

abração

[aribaz 8]

Olha cara, eu na faria tpc não, digo eu!

e se for fazer mandaria um clomid, seu eixo seria recuperado muito mais rapido!

e sobre a quantidade eu mandaria entre 60~80mg por dia e por umas 6 semanas a 8.

abração

valeu mano, mas eu soh quero dar um up mesmo, to qse com o corpo que eu queria.

e nao vou fazer tpc nao, a dose que eu vou tomar ta baixa e o periodo tmb.

nao vai zuar mto meu eixo, e eh uma droga que nao aromatiza neh !

ps: galera, vou comecar a tomar daqui 3 semanas, fiz uma tattoo nova e to mudando de casa, ta corrido nao to indo na academia direito.

em 3 semanas eu retomo o ritmo ai sim eu posso postar o acompanhamento aqui ! valeu pela atencao e pelas dicas.

Editado Junho 11, 2011 às 02:36 por aribaz