Multivitaminico

[craw69 2267]

Acho que eu já peguei a discussão aquecida pelos posts anteriores hehehe... Peço calma aos amigos do forum, estou aqui para aprender também de modo algum estou tentando enfiar goela abaixo, só estou querendo ajudar.

Mas só pra esclarecer algumas coisas, o corpo não produz sozinho a Vitamina D com a exposição ao sol, vc precisa ingerir os précurssores D2 ou D3 para a forma da vitamina D metabolitamente ativa, o 1,25(OH)2D3 ou 1,25-di-hidroxicolecalciferol (Di Hidroxi como eu disse antes ela é hidrolizada duas vezes pela enzima alfa-1-hidroxilase) ou calcitriol ser propriamente sintetizado.

Estima-se (Não há estudos conclusivos) que uma exposição breve e casual de face, braços e mãos á luz solar seja capaz de fornecer cerca de 5mcg (200 UI) de Vitamina D, mas isso contanto que vc tenha os pré-cursores lá esperando a irradiação ultura-violeta para engatilhar a reação. Então seu corpo só produz os 10000UI de Vitamina D com meia hora de exposição ao sol (Acredito que demore mais tempo pra produzir isso tudo) caso vc já tenha a forma inativa, a D3 nessas quantidades circulando no seu corpo, no figado e nos rins, esperando os raios UVB para engatilhar a reação comandada pela enzima já citada.

O link que o parceiro passou, diz que a toxidade de vitamina D é agravada dentro de alguns meses com a dosagem de 40000 UI. A afirmação está correta visto que a hipervitaminose D é progressiva, então podemos concluir somente que quanto maior a dosagem, mais rapido será agravado o estado mas isso não torna incorreta a afirmação de que 2000UI também é o suficiente para agravar uma intoxicação a longo prazo.

Opa, agora sim!

Porem ainda estou meio perdido (assim como acredito que outros devem estar) nos dois pontos que estamos debatendo.

A questao da exposicao ao sol ficou quase 100% explicada pelo menos pra mim, mas ainda assim, todas fontes de pesquisas citam esse valor sem fazer qualquer relacao com ingestao de precursores, entao nao sei, dificil tirar conclusoes. Voce poderia citar formas de ingerir esses precursores e fazer relacao de dosagens? (por ex, preciso de Xg do precursor Y para o corpo produzir Z UIs de D3 quando exposto ao sol; apesar de eu achar que esse tipo de informacao deve ser BEM complicado arranjar, nao sei).

O mesmo para a questao de 2.000UI, eu ainda vou ter que pesquisar muito e encontrar mais de uma fonte confiavel citando isso. Apesar de ter uma logica muito boa o que voce disse (da progressividade e proporcao em relacao a dose), infelizmente ao meu ver é apenas logica, e logica nao significa que seja aplicavel. Eu teria que estudar muito a fundo essa questao pra tirar conclusoes de quanto tempo estamos falando exatamente, porque como eu disse, ao meu ver é muito facil atingir 2.000UI diarias... supondo que, 2.000UI realmente seja intoxicavel ao longo do tempo, teriamos que ver quanto tempo estamos falando... se 40.000UI leva meses, 2.000UI leva quanto? Anos e anos entao?

Por enquanto, com esse debate todo, vou manter minha suplementacao de D3 como venho fazendo nos ultimos meses: entre 3 a 6.000UI diarias em épocas de pouca exposicao solar, como os invernos mais rigorosos aqui de Curitiba. Ainda nao encontrei nada que seja contra o uso dessa dose durante 3-6 meses distribuidos ao longo do ano

Abracos

[Don_alemao 9]

Voce poderia citar formas de ingerir esses precursores e fazer relacao de dosagens? (por ex, preciso de Xg do precursor Y para o corpo produzir Z UIs de D3 quando exposto ao sol; apesar de eu achar que esse tipo de informacao deve ser BEM complicado arranjar, nao sei).

Abracos

Óleo de peixe e a gema do ovo.

O leite também contem um composto, 25-hidroxicolecalciferol (25-OH D), que é absorvido mais rapidamente do que as outras formas (MOURÃO et al., 2005).

Outra forma da vitamina D é a D2, ou ergonocalciferol, porém é pouco disponível nos alimentos e mais utilizada na forma de suplementos (SILVA et al., 2008).

Bate com o que o Bellator falou, formada a partir de um esteróide fúngico, mas é pouco disponível.

Sobre a relação, a única coisa que eu li por enquanto é algo da Organização Mundial da Saúde de D3 para D: A unidade internacional da vitamina D é a atividade de 0,025 mg da preparação padrão de vitamina D3 cristalina, de modo que 1 UI de vitamina D3 equivale a 0,025 mg desta vitamina.

Edit: Esse artigo Biodisponibilidade de vitaminas lipossolúveis tem umas informações boas e links pra mais pesquisas. Pra quem tiver paciência e tempo pra ler.

Esse outro

Prevalência de deficiência e insuficiência de vitamina D e sua correlação com PTH, marcadores de remodelação óssea e densidade mineral óssea, em pacientes ambulatoriais

Tem informações bem interessantes na prática meeesmo, análise de pacientes, para aqueles que dizem que cientista tem que sair do laboratório e inclusive citando os fatores geográficos da cidade e luz solar.

Craw a única maneira da gente terminar o assunto é você se oferecer de cobaia e fazer um monitoramento por um tempo de cálcio na urina, sangue e 25(OH). Já que tu ganhou suplementos aí numa promoção e vai poder economizar, pode fazer esse monitoramento sem choro! huahuahuahuahuahuhua

Editado Janeiro 13, 2011 às 18:20 por Don_alemao

[R.Hellmann 60]

É uma boa hora pra tentar deixar esse seu post útil também amigão! Agradeço se você nos explicar melhor.

O que eu quis dizer Alemão é que para alguém conseguir entrar em overtraining é muito complicado, chegar naquele ponto de perder MM e continuar treinando, é algo que eu nunca vi. Nego fala que está em over pq parou de ganhar ou está cansado, mas todos sabemos que isso não é over, ou é hora de reavaliar a dieta, o treino ou dar um descanso de uma semana.

Já a hipervitaminose eu quis dizer que do mesmo jeito que alguém aqui toma um Centrum, ADAM, MultiXS da vida, dificilmente vai conseguir se envenenar por vitamina X, é complicado já que a maioria da galera não come verduras e frutas, fica no mesmo cardápio o ano todo, ou seja, frangos, ovos e batata-doce. E todos sabemos que hoje em dia os alimentos não tem o mesmos valores nutricionais de antigamente, devido ao solo e ao capitalismo. E nenhum sedentário toma o mesmo tipo de multi que tomamos, fora nós ainda praticamos alguma atividade e com isso utilizamos bem as vitaminas e minerais.

EDIT: Artigo interessante sobre VIT D

September 2007

By Zoltan P. Rona, M.D., M.Sc.

When the June 8, 2007 front page of the Toronto Globe and Mail proclaimed the cancer preventing benefits of vitamin D (a.k.a. “the sunshine vitamin” or D3), and the Canadian Cancer Society chirped in with their modest recommendation for everyone to take 1100 IU of vitamin D daily, the natural health community may have felt vindicated. Yet many scientists felt hoodwinked.

This cancer preventive property of vitamin D was no big news to world experts and researchers who have been touting the numerous benefits of the vitamin for well over a decade. The medical profession and its various antiquated societies are, unfortunately, far behind in applying scientific data to clinical health concerns. It’s a nice gesture on their part to recommend 1100 IU of vitamin D a day to prevent cancer, but it’s far from enough. Current research indicates that the figure for cancer prevention should be closer to 10,000 IU daily.

Vitamin D is really not a vitamin but a steroid hormone precursor that plays a major role in many diseases. It is created under the skin by ultraviolet light and is found in few foods commonly consumed by most Canadians. Vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency (sub-optimal levels) plays a role in causing seventeen types of cancer (especially breast, prostate and colon) as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis, diabetes, depression (especially seasonal affective disorder), chronic pain, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, and periodontal disease.

In my practice, at least half the patients I see for chronic health problems have insufficient blood levels of vitamin D despite consuming vitamin D fortified dairy products or taking a multiple vitamin supplement. Sun-phobia, a condition imposed on the population by sun-paranoid dermatologists, along with sunscreens and spending too much time indoors have all contributed to the vitamin D insufficiency problem. In fact, one of the worst offenders in creating vitamin D deficiency is the use of commercial sun blocks. And studies now indicate that while these may prevent sunburns, they do virtually nothing to prevent skin cancer.

Research indicates that to get 4000 IU of vitamin D, if you totally avoid the sun, you must drink 40 glasses of milk a day or take 10 typical multivitamin pills daily. As mentioned earlier, a more optimal daily dose of vitamin D is 10,000 IU.

The purported toxicity of vitamin D is overstated. According to well-documented research, a person standing in the summer sun for an hour at noontime in a southern latitude in swim trunks, would naturally produce about 10,000 IU of vitamin D through skin exposure. But sun poisoning from vitamin D overdose has never been reported anywhere.

For those who cannot tolerate the sun and prefer to take supplements, Dr. Reinhold Vieth PhD, researcher at the University of Toronto, notes that vitamin D toxicity begins at 40,000 IU daily only after many weeks of use. Taking 10,000 IU daily for months at a time, provided there is no sun exposure, is perfectly safe. Blood levels can be tested periodically to verify this.

BESIDES CANCER, WHY TAKE VITAMIN D?

Vitamin D supplementation is not only effective for cancer prevention (60% of all cancers can be prevented) and treatment, but for a long list of other conditions. Below are a rapidly growing number of health problems that are proven to be either prevented or treated effectively by boosting the blood levels of vitamin D:

- Rickets – even conventional medicos know this childhood bone disease is caused by vitamin D deficiency, and was the major reason why milk became fortified with tiny doses of the supplement.

- Osteoporosis – even though this is common knowledge, many people who suffer from osteoporosis are low in their D levels and simply need to take more.

- Heart disease – hardening of the arteries is caused by calcium deposition. Vitamin D is an anti-calcifying agent when at optimal levels in the bloodstream; both extremely high and low intake levels of vitamin D induce calcification of arteries but calcification from overdose of vitamin D requires many hundreds of thousands of international units and is rare. Vitamin D deficiency is common and calcified arteries are a direct result of deficiency. Also, as is noted below, heart disease is often triggered and perpetuated by inflammation, and vitamin D is anti-inflammatory.

- Diabetes – evidence is mounting that vitamin D can improve insulin resistance and favourably affect Type 2 diabetes.

- Hypertension – emerging evidence has compared the blood pressure lowering effects of vitamin D to ace (angiotensin converting enzyme) inhibitors, a class of blood pressure lowering drugs commonly prescribed by conventional doctors; don’t go off your blood pressure pills yet but consider high dose supplements of vitamin D and get your blood levels checked along with your blood pressure.

- The Common Cold and Influenza – ditch that mercury and formaldehyde laden flu shot; vitamin D has strong antibiotic properties and some studies indicate that optimal blood levels will prevent influenza far better than those toxic ‘flu shots. Dr. John Cannell, the director of the Vitamin D Council, suggests high-dose vitamin D (50,000 IU) be consumed for three days at the first sign of a cold or the ‘flu. If you have an infection, you need more vitamin D. That’s a given.

- Autism - Research has shown that low maternal vitamin D levels can adversely affect the developing brain and lead to autism, and that vitamin D supplements can improve some of the signs of autistic behaviour. Since most of the medical and conventional treatments for autism are so dismal, supplementing with vitamin D may be well worth a try.

- Inflammation – vitamin D is anti-inflammatory; if you have inflammation (arthritis, iritis, thyroiditis, pancreatitis, anything ending in “itis”), you need more vitamin D.

- Autoimmune Disease – multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and numerous other diseases where the immune system attacks various organs, involves inflammation that can be arrested by a high dose vitamin D.

- Melanoma – this most deadly form of skin cancer is now thought to be caused by a sunlight/vitamin D deficiency; safe sun exposure actually helps prevent melanoma, a counter intuitive finding confusing the heck out of dermatologists.

Obesity – vitamin D levels are significantly lower in overweight individuals; taking a vitamin D supplement certainly beats dieting but check your blood levels first.

The Bottom Line

The only way to ensure vitamin D adequacy is to expose yourself to the sun regularly. In Canada and other northern latitude countries, this is next to impossible at any time other than the summer. As discussed earlier, drinking milk is not the answer. Although frowned upon by frumpy dermatologists, I recommend people use a sun bed (avoiding sunburn) during the winter months. Either that or make frequent trips to Florida, southern California or the Caribbean.

For people who want nothing to do with sun beds or trips to the deep south, there are oral supplements that will do the trick. One choice would be cod liver oil or halibut liver oil liquid or capsules. The only problem here might be the high vitamin A (each capsule may contain as much as 5000 IU of vitamin A) that comes along with the vitamin D (usually 200 – 400 IU per capsule). If you want to take 2000 IU daily of vitamin D, then fish liver oil capsules might be suitable. If you want to push the dose up to 10,000 IU of vitamin D daily, you might be getting too much vitamin A.

An alternative to cod or halibut liver oil would be capsules containing only vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol). These usually come in dosages of 400 IU or 1000 IU per capsule. Higher potencies per capsule are available by prescription only. Biotics Research makes a vitamin D supplement called Bio-D-Mulsion, a water-soluble form of vitamin D3 in liquid form (1000 IU per drop). This version of vitamin D may be more suitable for people who hate taking pills of any kind or who have problems absorbing fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K). Bio-D-Mulsion is available from some health care practitioners, pharmacies specializing in natural remedies (ie. Hoopers Pharmacy, Ottway), and the Big Carrot Dispensary. For more information on this product, see http://www.mercola.com/forms/vitamind.htm'>http://www.mercola.com/forms/vitamind.htm

If you suffer from any chronic health problem, ask your doctor to check your blood level of 25-hydroxy vitamin D, the most accurate indicator of vitamin D status. The optimal blood levels should be between 100 and 250 ng/ml. Levels below 50 are considered insufficient and levels below 25 are definitely in the deficiency category. With continued research, I predict these numbers will all change, so stay tuned.

Referências

REFERENCES

The Vitamin D Council. http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/'>http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/

Bill Sardi, Just One Pill Away. http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi70.'>http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi70. html

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Egawa K, Ono T. Topical vitamin D3 derivatives for recalcitrant warts in three immunocompromised patients. Br J Dermatol 2004;150:374-6.

Bischoff-Ferrari HA, Dietrich T, Orav EJ, et al. Higher 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations are associated with better lower-extremity function in both active and inactive persons aged 60 y. Am J Clin Nutr 2004; 80:752-8.

Levis S, Gomez A, Jimenez C, et al. Vitamin D deficiency and seasonal variation in an adult South Florida population. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2005; 90:1557-62

Holick MF. Sunlight and vitamin D for bone health and prevention of autoimmune diseases, cancers, and cardiovascular disease. Am J Clin Nutr 2004; 80 (6 Suppl):1678S-88S.

Leading World Experts/Researchers on Vitamin D

Bess Dawson-Hughes MD, Former President, National Osteoporosis Foundation, Professor of Medicine, Tufts University, Senior Scientist and Director, Bone Metabolism Laboratory, Jean Mayer USDA HNRCA at Tufts University, 711 Washington St., Boston, MA 02111, USA, Ph.: 617-556-3064, Fax: 617-556-3305, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: B Dawson-Hughes, PubMed: Dawson-Hughes B

Cedric F. Garland DrPH FACE, Professor of Medicine, Moores Cancer Center, Dept. of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of California San Diego, 9500 Gilman Dr., La Jolla, CA 92093, USA, Ph.: 858-534-0520, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: CF Garland, PubMed: Garland CF

Edward Giovannucci MD ScD, Professor of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Dept. of Nutrition, Dept. of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, 655 Huntington Ave., Building II Room 319, Boston, MA 02115, USA, Ph.: 617-432-4648, Email: [email protected] rvard.edu, Google Scholar: E Giovannucci, PubMed: Giovannucci E

William B. Grant PhD, Former Senior Research Scientist, Atmospheric Sciences, SRI International, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA Langley Research Center, Elected Fellow, Optical Society of America, Director, Sunlight, Nutrition, and Health Research Center, San Francisco, CA 94109-2510, USA, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: WB Grant, PubMed: Grant WB

Robert P. Heaney MD FACP FACN, Member, American Dietetic Association, Elected Fellow, American College of Nutrition, Emeritus Board Member, National Osteoporosis Foundation, Professor of Medicine, Department of Medicine, Osteoporosis Research Center, Creighton University Medical Center, 601 N 30th Street, Suite 4820, Omaha, NE 68131, USA, Ph.: 402-280-4029, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: RP Heaney, PubMed: Heaney RP

Michael Holick PhD MD, Director, General Clinical Research Center, Director, Bone Health Care Clinic, Boston University Medical Center, Professor of Medicine, Physiology, and Biophysics, Boston University School of Medicine, 715 Albany St. M_1013, Boston, MA 02118, USA, Ph.: 617-638-4545, Fax: 617-638-8882, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: MF Holick, PubMed: Holick MF

Dr. Holick is the world's foremost authority on vitamin D. In 2006, Dr. Holick received the 18th Annual Award for Excellence in Clinical Research for his pioneering contributions in the basic science of vitamin D.

Bruce W. Hollis PhD, Professor of Pediatrics, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Director of Pediatric Nutritional Sciences, Medical University of South Carolina, 171 Ashley Ave. Charleston, SC 29425, USA, Ph.: 843.792.6854, Fax: 843-792-8801, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: BW Hollis, PubMed: Hollis BW

Christel Lamberg-Allardt PhD, Dept. of Applied Chemistry and Microbiology, University of Helsinki, PO Box 27, FIN, 00014, Finland, Ph.: 358-9-1-915-8266, Fax: 358-9-1-915-8475, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: C Lamberg-Allardt, PubMed: Lamberg-Allardt C

Anthony W. Norman PhD, Emeritus, Presidential Chair, and, Distinguished Professor of Biochemistry and Biomedical Sciences, Dept. of Biochemistry, University of California Riverside, Room 5456 Boyce Hall, Riverside, CA 92521, USA, Ph.: 909-787-4777, Fax: 909-787-4784, Email: [email protected], Web: http://www.biochemistry.ucr.edu/faculty/norman.html

Google Scholar: AW Norman, PubMed: Norman AW

Reinhold Vieth PhD, Associate Professor, Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathobiology, University of Toronto, Director, Bone and Mineral Laboratory, Dept. of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital, 600 University Ave., Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5G 1X5, Ph.: 416.586.5920, Fax: 416.586.8628, Email: [email protected], Google Scholar: R Vieth, PubMed: Veith R

ABraços

Editado Janeiro 14, 2011 às 03:45 por R.Hellmann

[viniciusguigo 18]

Vejo muita gente falando do ADAM, Opti-men, Orange Triad, mas quase nunca do AST Multi Pro 32X.

Olhando a tabela e preço me parece com excelente CxB, o que acham?

*edit: zuou o link do site.

200 Caplets

Supplement Facts

Serving Size:1Capsule

Servings Per Container:200

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Vitamin A(as Beta Carotene) &(as Acetate, Incl) 10,000IU 200%

Vitamin C(as Ascorbic Acid) 200mg 333%

Vitamin D3(as Cholecalciferol) 400IU 100%

Vitamin E(as DL-Alpha Tocopheryls Acetate) 60IU 200%

Vitamin K(as Phytonadione) 75mcg 93%

Vitamin B1(as Thiamin Hydrochloride) 30mg 2000%

Vitamin B2(as Riboflavin) 30mg 1765%

Vitamin B3(as Niacinamide) 30mg 150%

Vitamin B6(as Pyridoxine HCL) 30mg 1500%

Folic Acid 400mcg 100%

Vitamin B12(as Cyanocobalamin) 30mcg 500%

Biotin 300mcg 100%

Vitamin B5(as Pantothenic Acid) 30mg 300%

Di-Calcium Phosphate -Calcium75mg 8%

-Phosphorus45mg 6%

Iron(as Ferrous Fumarate) 6mg 33%

Iodine(as Potassium Iodide) 150mcg 100%

Magnesium(as Magnesium Oxide) 100mg 25%

Zinc(as Zinc Chelate) 30mg 200%

Selenium(as Selenium Amino Acid Chelate) 75mcg 108%

Copper(as Copper Chelate) 2mg 100%

Manganese(as Manganese Sulfate) 10mg 500%

Chromium(as Chromium Chelate) 100mcg 84%

Molybdenum(as Molybdenum Chelate) 80mcg 106%

Potassium Chloride -Chloride36mg <2%

-Potassium40mg <2%

Silicon 30mg *

Tin(as Tin Chelate) 10mcg *

Vanadium(as Vanadium Chelate) 10mcg *

Boron(as Boron Amino Acid Chelate) 150mcg *

Nickel(as Nickel Protein Chelate) 25mcg *

* Daily Value not established

Other Ingredients

Croscarmellose Sodium, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate

Directions For AST Multi Pro 32X: Take one tablet twice daily - AM/PM.

Editado Fevereiro 21, 2011 às 23:42 por viniciusguigo

[brunorocha 4]

o da AST eh um "super centrum"

ele so eh um multi saca? bem basicao e tudo mais

os outros tem mais funcoes, como o OT por exemplo, q tem enzimas, aminos, antioxidante, joint support e etc, e acaba sendo um multi mais bem balanceado entende ?

e tbm tem ferro no da AST, q faz "mal". nao lembro os efeitos negativos do ferro, mas a maioria dos multis bons nao tem ferro ou senao tem uma dosagem muito baixa

esse da ast tem 100% da dose diaria, enquanto alguns tem 17% ou menos e o OT nao tem ferro

[viniciusguigo 18]

o da AST eh um "super centrum"

ele so eh um multi saca? bem basicao e tudo mais

os outros tem mais funcoes, como o OT por exemplo, q tem enzimas, aminos, antioxidante, joint support e etc, e acaba sendo um multi mais bem balanceado entende ?

e tbm tem ferro no da AST, q faz "mal". nao lembro os efeitos negativos do ferro, mas a maioria dos multis bons nao tem ferro ou senao tem uma dosagem muito baixa

esse da ast tem 100% da dose diaria, enquanto alguns tem 17% ou menos e o OT nao tem ferro

Entendi, por isso ele é mais em conta mesmo.

E tomando duas cápsulas/dia eu vou ingerir 66% da VD do ferro. Parece meio arriscado, visto que uma xícara de feijão preto já tem 3mg (e acho que como umas 2 por dia).

[RodrigoPaz 7]

Pessoal, li o tópico inteiro e vi que as opiniões ficaram muito divididas em relação à quantidade necessária de vitaminas para ocorrer toxicidade. Realmente os estudos mostram variações enormes, devido à metodologia de pesquisa, às especificações do grupo-cobaia do estudo, enfim... Não pretendo expor aqui nenhum estudo ou conclusão própria. Só vou aconselhar às pessoas que buscam entendimento sobre as vitaminas e minerais na saúde do Homem que ESTUDEM sobre o assunto. Claro, relatos de pessoas até mesmo do fórum que mostram não ter tido efeitos colaterais com o uso de multivitamínicos podem até ser válidos, mas como cada um tem suas individualidades, não se pode basear-se somente neles.

E outra... Tanta discussão sobre a toxicidade... Por que não procurar saber dos benefícios (se é que existem) de doses cavalares de vitaminas sobre o treino? Isso sim é importante.

Bem, é isso...

EDIT: só pra constar, a toxicidade de minerais é bem mais fácil de ser alcançada e é aguda (se atinge com um pequeno período de uso) e é mais fatal que as hipervitaminoses.

Editado Setembro 3, 2011 às 00:08 por RodrigoPaz

[craw69 2267]

E outra... Tanta discussão sobre a toxicidade... Por que não procurar saber dos benefícios (se é que existem) de doses cavalares de vitaminas sobre o treino? Isso sim é importante.

Nao discordo de maneira alguma; o foco ficou na toxicidade simplesmente porque, quem foi contra o uso, utilizou deste argumento: aqueles (os multis) sao prejudiciais a saude e qualquer coisa que ultrapasse VDR vai te trazer problemas.

EDIT: só pra constar, a toxicidade de minerais é bem mais fácil de ser alcançada e é aguda (se atinge com um pequeno período de uso) e é mais fatal que as hipervitaminoses.

Ao passo que tambem é bem mais dificil ver alguem ingerindo doses significantes de minerais (isso significa que concordo na teoria; apesar de achar que, na pratica, tambem é bem improvavel alguem ter problemas sem utilizar doses extras dos minerais).

Abracos

[AlvinhoRJ 161]

Entre o Orange Triad e o Opti-MEN, qual é melhor? Não entendo muito de multivitamínicos =P

[GVacaro 8]

Show de bola o tópico.

Apenas uma dúvida Craw: Quantas cápsulas de OT tu toma por dia?

(Uma curiosidade apenas, se não quiser responder, de boa ^^)