[Falta de Pesquisa]Creatina + Cafeína

[Dacio]

Alguém por acaso teria algum artigo a respeito se a cafeína pode inibir ou atrapalhar o efeito ergogênico da creatina? Grato.

[rsdrock]

Cara não se existe tal artigo, mas tem duas teorias(ou melhor hipóteses):

A primeira é isso que você falou, a segunda é que ela(cafeína) potencializa o uso da creatina, nunca vi nenhum estudo falando especificamente dessa combinação.

Editado Junho 25, 2014 às 01:57 por rsdrock

[Dacio]

Olha só

"Caffeine and Post-Workout Recovery

A recent study by researchers at RMIT University over the border in my old home Victoria, examined the effect of consuming caffeine, not pre-workout, but post-workout[17]. The aim of the study was to see what effect this had on glycogen replenishment after exhaustive exercise. On the evening prior to the experiment, seven endurance-trained cyclists and triathletes performed high intensity intermittent cycling and then consumed a low-carbohydrate meal to induce a glycogen-depleted state. The following morning subjects reported back to the lab and rode until volitional fatigue.

Upon completion of this ride subjects consumed either carbohydrate or the same amount of carbohydrate plus caffeine during four hours of passive recovery. A total of 4 g/kg of carbohydrate was consumed within 5 minutes of stopping exercise and again after 60, 120 and 180 minutes. During the caffeine trial, the same carbohydrate ingestion regimen was followed along with a total of 8 mg/kg caffeine administered in two equal doses immediately post exercise and after 2 hours of recovery. Muscle biopsies and blood samples were taken at regular intervals throughout recovery. Muscle glycogen levels were similar at exhaustion and increased by a similar amount (~80%) after 1 h of recovery. After 4 hours of recovery, however, the carbohydrate + caffeine treatment resulted in higher glycogen accumulation (313 vs. 234 mmol.kg-1 d.w., P<0.001). The overall hourly rate of re-synthesis for the 4 hour recovery period was 66% higher with the caffeine treatment."

De modo geral a creatina possui um efeito ergogênico que nós possibilita renegar nosso ATP mais depressa, que por conseguinte proporciona uma melhor qualidade de treino intenso.

A cafeína por outro lado, atua aumentando o tempo até que atingirmos a fadiga, porém como eu suspeitava desde o início, talvez a creatina possa acelerar a conversão de CP em ATP.

Vou continuar pesquisando.

Encontrei, sim cafeína é antagonista, agora por quê necessariamente não é conhecido.

Vou deixar em negrito.

Caffeine and Creatine

Creatine has become one of the most popular supplements among strength athletes and recreational weight trainers. In early studies showing ergogenic effects of creatine, the powdered creatine was often mixed into warm drinks such as tea (which contains caffeine, albeit at much lower amounts than coffee) to increase solubility. So it was rather surprising when a couple of subsequent papers claimed caffeine impaired the absorption/actions of creatine.

The first of these studies was published in 1996[19]. Nine recreationally active males were studied before and after 6 days of placebo, creatine (0.5 g/kg daily), or the same dose of creatine plus caffeine (5 mg/kg daily). The subjects were then tested on an isokinetic leg extension dynamometer; testing consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval bouts of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 minutes between bouts.

Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions, while creatine and creatine + caffeine increased muscle phosphocreatine concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production was increased by 10-23% by creatine but was not changed by creatine + caffeine. Torque improvement during creatine was most prominent immediately after the 2-minute rest between the exercise bouts. According to the researchers, who initially expected that caffeine would enhance the effects of creatine, “The data show that [creatine] supplementation elevates muscle [phosphocreatine] concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.”

In order to understand why caffeine would impair the effect of creatine supplementation, the researchers conducted another study[20]. Ten students were assigned in random crossover fashion to five experimental protocols, each lasting 8 days and separated by a washout period of 5 weeks (muscle creatine levels return to baseline around 4-5 weeks after cessation of supplementation). Exercise tests were performed before and after creatine supplementation (4 × 5 g/daily for 4 days), short-term caffeine intake (5 mg/kg daily for 3 days), creatine supplementation + short-term caffeine intake, acute caffeine intake (5 mg/kg) or placebo.

Maximal torque, contraction time from 0.25 to 0.75 of maximal torque, and relaxation time from 0.75 to 0.25 of maximal torque were measured during an exercise test consisting of 30 intermittent quadriceps contractions (2 seconds stimulation, 2 seconds rest) induced by electrical stimulation. Compared with placebo, creatine shortened relaxation time by 5%; in contrast, caffeine increased relaxation time by 10%. When caffeine was combined with creatine, relaxation time increased by 7%.

Skeletal muscle relaxation after a contraction is initiated by a reduction in sarcoplasmic calcium ion concentrations, and the researchers speculated that caffeine may interfere with this process in a detrimental manner. Relaxation time increases as a muscle fatigues, and in this study caffeine amplified the effect of fatigue on relaxation time. As the researchers point out, theoretically muscle relaxation rate is important to power production during sprint-type exercise. During fast repetitive concentric muscle contractions, recovery time from the previous contraction is critical to maximal force output during the next contraction.

However, this study involved subjects whose muscles were wired up and given electrical stimulation to induce contraction. Neither this nor the previous study measured power output or performance during a “real life” activity such as cycling, running, or dynamic weight lifting. If these results held, then performance in subsequent bouts of maximal sprint exercise would be expected to be impaired by caffeine. While one oft-quoted study did indeed show a statistically significant reduction (7%) in peak power output on the last of 4 x 30 second “Wingate” sprints following caffeine ingestion[21], numerous other studies involving Wingate protocols have shown no difference; some have even found benefit.

Vanakoski et al studied seven trained athletes in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover fashion[22]. The treatments were: placebo, a single oral dose (7 mg/kg) of caffeine, repeated oral doses (3 x 100 mg/kg daily) of creatine for 3 days, or the combination of caffeine and creatine before physical exercise. Supplement administration was followed 70 minutes later by 3 repetitive 1-minute exercise bouts on a stationary bike at maximal speed. This was followed by 45 minutes of cycling at a constant speed and workload. Neither creatine nor caffeine, alone or in combination, improved maximal pedaling speed, maintenance of maximal speed or total work output during the 1 -minute bouts, when compared with placebo.

Contrasting results were obtained by British researchers who had fourteen trained male subjects perform treadmill running to exhaustion at an exercise intensity equivalent to 125% VO2max. Three trials were performed, one before 6 days of creatine loading (0.3 g/kg daily), and two further trials after the loading period. One hour before the post-loading trials, caffeine (5 mg/kg daily) or placebo was ingested in cross-over, double-blind fashion. The mean time to exhaustion was significantly longer in the caffeine trial (222.1 seconds) than both baseline (200.8 s) and placebo (198.3 s) trials[23].

It’s probably safe to assume that the vast majority of individuals taking creatine are doing so, not for performance enhancement, but for aesthetic bodybuilding purposes. The aforementioned studies were of short duration and tell us nothing about what sort of muscle gain or body composition changes may occur with longer term creatine use.

One study, from the University of Oklahoma, did run for a longer duration, but it involved a supplement containing, not just caffeine and creatine, but several other ingredients[24]. It also did not examine the effects of creatine and caffeine separately. This single-blinded, placebo-controlled study examined the effects of a pre-workout supplement known as Game Time® or placebo combined with three weeks of high-intensity interval training (HIIT) on aerobic and anaerobic running performance, training volume, and body composition[23].

Twenty-four moderately-trained recreational athletes were assigned to either Game Time® (which contains Cordyceps sinensis, Arginine AKG, Kre-Alkalyn, Citrulline AKG, Eleutherococcus senticosus, Taurine, Leucine, Rhodiola Rosea, Sodium Chloride, Valine, Isoleucine, Caffeine, Whey Protein Concentrate) or placebo. The supplement/placebo powders were consumed thirty minutes prior to all testing and training sessions. Training comprised of a three-week HIIT program three days per week, and testing was conducted before and after the training. Each training session consisted of five sets of two-minute running bouts with one minute of rest between each bout.

Both the Game Time® and placebo groups demonstrated significant increases in VO2max from pre- to post-training resulting in a 10.3% and 2.9% improvement, respectively. Critical velocity (maximal running velocity that can be maintained for an extended period of time using only aerobic energy stores) increased for the supplement group by 2.9%, but remained unchanged in the placebo group. Anaerobic running capacity increased for the placebo group by 22.9% and for the Game Time® group by 10.6%. Training volume was 11.6% higher for the supplement versus placebo group. As for body composition changes, bodyfat decreased from 19.3% to 16.1% for the Game Time group and decreased from 18.0% to 16.8% in the placebo group. Lean body mass increased from 54.2 kg to 55.4 kg for the Game Time® group and decreased from 52.9 kg to 52.4 kg in the placebo group (p = 0.694).

Again, it must be noted that this study involved numerous other ingredients and did not separately examine the effects of caffeine and creatine. Also, Game Time® contains 100 mg of caffeine, a much lower dose than what is typically used for ergogenic purposes.

While commentators on both sides of the fence of confidently assert that caffeine “does/does not/does too!” impair the actions of creatine, the research so far is equivocal. More research is required to determine for sure if, and under what conditions, caffeine anatagonizes the actions of creatine.

Bem... Que curte gastar fortunas em pré treinos... Melhor pensar duas vezes, não?

Editado Junho 25, 2014 às 02:14 por Dacio

[Victor Amorim]

somente doses muito altas

Editado Junho 25, 2014 às 02:27 por Victor Amorim

[Lucas suplt]

Não , o SITE OFICIAL de uma das maiores revendedoras de creatina falou sobre o uso de cafeína :

2 xícaras por dia não vai provocar nenhum efeito significativo na perda de creatina do corpo.. porem doses mais elevadas podem alterar.

Tomar 2 xícaras por dia tudo bem.. se for pra tomar 2 copos de café por dia nem tome creatina que vai joga o dinheiro no lixo

[Victor Amorim]

Não , o SITE OFICIAL de uma das maiores revendedoras de creatina falou sobre o uso de cafeína :

2 xícaras por dia não vai provocar nenhum efeito significativo na perda de creatina do corpo.. porem doses mais elevadas podem alterar.

Tomar 2 xícaras por dia tudo bem.. se for pra tomar 2 copos de café por dia nem tome creatina que vai joga o dinheiro no lixo

sim, ate uns 250mg-300mg por dia nao faz efeito negativo nao.

[busarello]

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